ME
what I wanted to do is just make sure that we were all on the same page and to help understand the why behind some of what you had discussed and maybe modify maybe extend not discussed but you you and you and Client had discussed I've got improve communication, strategic thinker and be more executive slash VP. Stop stream of consciousness and learn to delegate strategically. The four things. Right,
Client’s Manager
that sounds right.
ME
Are they in order of priority for you?
Client’s Manager
I don't think so. But why do you think that is? How would you prioritize?
Client
Learning to delegate, I strategically probably would be maybe at the top of my list say probably be strategic thinker and be more executive. I think maybe that stream of consciousness part is, I think, tied to that, that second item. And then probably last, but really not that least. I mean, it's not any less important that it could be improved communication. I think that creative communication is also part of that is also related to the strategic thinker. Right and being negative and stop being shamed consciousness. Maybe,
ME
right. Why do you think that?
Client
Well, because I think that one of the, I also perceive, but it may not receive receive items here, it's assumed that consciousness is not there. By that I mean, brainstorming on the fly, right? sort of thinking out loud, right? They tend to think out loud.
Client’s Manager
With the
Client
topic of clients, but definitely team and sometimes that's not that can lead to confusion, potentially, right? I do try to say, Hey, guys, I'm thinking out loud. Bear with me. Right? But it may not. I'm not sure if they understand that or not. I'm not sure if he's the one who understands that or not. And so that's, that's, that might, that's why I think we still may even need to relate in that way.
Client’s Manager
I wouldn't, I want to back up a bit and preface something. And I believe I told you, John, but if I have to repeat myself, I have the highest regard for better.
ME
I know, I mentioned that to him as well.
Client’s Manager
And and when we meet with clients, usually the first time I always say the same thing at the risk of embarrassing failure, I always tell him better, and I better know everything I know. The only thing that is different between pero me is that he does everything better than me. And I mean that's exactly that amazing, amazing powerhouse. He has an amazing network of talent, talented people that you can tap on and he's highly respected in the field, including corners of the industry that were not known. They're getting to know me face to better. So I have the highest regard for these my VP of content development and we are where we'd like to call it dedicated company and federal has gone we have all gone to the online version of Seven Habits one of the versions you know they have different levels of intensity and and certainly sharpen the salt is one of the habits that were committed to or committed to a seven but sharpening the saw is one that I feel is the best gift that I can give Federer right now with your knowledge and expertise John and that the conversation I've had with with Beto. Again, my highest regard for Beto. I want him to take his professionalism his career to the next level for two reasons. One is because we're growing and to reach out to new contacts. And I need him to be at that next level for that too, because at some point it wider needs to retire. We're not sure what that's gonna look like. They don't I have talked with maybe leaving the company together that could be an option for if we Now that we want, I want to make sure that Ted was in that position to keep his high standing under the new orders, whether we do some kind of merger with a similar company or anything like that. All right. So whatever path we take, in that regard, I want him to be ready. And we need to start planning for that now, not two or two years from now, which is what I'd like this to happen. I'm 67. I'm going to grow up now. But it'd be 73 years, I would prefer that to be working full time
ME
when I took Saturday, so I don't blame me. I don't blame you. Yeah, it is
Client’s Manager
a big gift for federal to support is already bringing career and help them take it to the next level. I don't think he's ever been in a company where they really care to help them take his career to the next level. And they want him to be productive, but to really look at him and say, Hey, you could probably use help with this, or that. I don't think that's happened to your bedroom. I want this to be the opportunity that would be
ME
okay. And so when you look at delegate strategic thinker, improved communication, how would you rank those? Me? Yeah. Yes, Client’s Manager. Oh, speaking of good communication, I wasn't clear on who I was talking to.
Client’s Manager
No, that's okay. I thought you might be me, but I just wanted to make sure I would put improved communication at the very top. And because it affects everything, we all do better. Everything. When we delegate when we beat the client, or we do a sales pitch. When we when we conceptualize a product. When we hire someone, and we explain the project to them, when we interview someone, and we're trying to understand what the value add is that they can bring to the table and the kinds of questions we ask the type of listening we do all of that. I feel good communication should be at the top? I would I would recommend doing that.
ME
Right? Well, we don't we can work on them simultaneously. And what like what, what is the crux of his current level of communication? What's the crux of the issue there?
Client’s Manager
Do you want to speak to that? Based on conversation?
ME
Yeah, I was throwing it out to both of you. Back from my case, teaching days. I understand.
Client’s Manager
And this is for him. So I wanted to
ME
write
Client’s Manager
if you're okay with that, but
Client
yeah, so what exactly mean by the Christ? What's the what's the main issue with
ME
it? Or yeah, like, like where you are? Is it thinking out loud? Is that it, Client’s Manager, that you're trying to get to? Know.
Client’s Manager
You know, the joke, I'm always making better. There's only one person who talks more than Client’s Manager. And that talking too much, talking too much, either with the client with personal interviewing, he will ask you questions, and we talked about this, you ask them a question, then you start answering the questions that are given the chance. Oh, so your resume, say, a. So I wanted to know more about that. You mean that you did that? For the next five years? You imagine what the answer should be? Rather than ask a simple question what you're doing more of now to say your resume say, can you tell me more about which is really all you need to ask? Right, not not anticipate the answer, because we're there to listen to them. We can we can meet or among ourselves and speculate what they need. So asking simple, pointed questions, targeting questions that get you the information you need. We can have an open mind right? Waiting for that get everybody has to get and sometimes it's clear from your resume sometimes is not do let them speak they will say something that will trigger a good thought in terms of what they can do for us. So So With that, listening more not running to fill in all the silences. The less impulsive with ideas just because I'm having a thought doesn't mean I have to throw it up there turning statements into questions, you know? Oh, so you you when you say to me what? When you say do you mean why? Or do you mean be? Or exactly what do you mean? So yeah.
ME
What do you think Client?
Client
keep on repeating as long as I brought it down, and I keep on forgetting that acronym, but it's when listen.
Client’s Manager
Yeah, that was that was from my training at Scholastic you will then called and I don't know if they're still around because that type of training for Salesforce I was not in sales but we all went to sales training to address resistance from my clients. And the acronym is l a r e r, I believe this layer and listen, acknowledge, explore when response or tendency all of us display fingers at you all of us. You know, someone raises an objection. We want to respond. Someone says what I don't think that's what he does. But I do think it's for you, because you're looking for you tell me more? Okay, you're saying this is not for you? As far as knowledge explored? Well, tell me more when you say it's not for you? Do you mean it's up to you now? Or is that for you ever? Or do you think it might be for you later? Is there a piece of this that deal breaker for you? Is there something that can be added? So he does work for you? And then the project you do that you don't even need to respond? They give you the answer. And he may then deal to you may even be need to, you know, closing the deal. So the Listen, acknowledging explorer, before responding, I use it, I've extracted that from the original purpose of the training, use that as much as I can.
Client
It seems to me that that would be great to be here, that whole piece of being more sensitive. And it's something else that you've said in the past. I also like a lot. And that's, you know, I'm not here to convince you of anything, right? Because the client, right, I'm not here to sell you this or that, you know, I'm just here to listen to you and to give you what you need. Assuming you need, right. So
ME
that's great. I like that too.
Client
Yeah, exactly. So that way, there's no pressure on me or us to have to be a salesperson, right? Because of the whole we are consultants.
ME
And the nice thing about listening and improving communication and active listening, is it something that is beneficial outside of work as well? So you talked about improving communication, be more of a strategic thinker. Do you how are those connected Client’s Manager?
Client’s Manager
Yeah, very good question. The district teacher district teaching thinking part has to do with a number of things. Both certainly managing the team staffing, and creating team dynamics as well as client facing interaction. We have a history of OSI we as a company have pushed by circumstances in the industry to start the project. before we're ready. The client always comes to a late ok. Project. We just got a message like that may last night it was from Sony, Austin. They want to start a project on Monday, and then wonder suite, which means by Friday, and what do we do? Whoever's available, we throw into the project, knowing that they did something right for us in the past, but not really knowing if they're a good match for this project. And we just, we just throw them in there because they're available. Okay, rather than look at the need for the project, the Talos people, we have a match. skill to do need. So the project math match guild to task. Two, that that's one big thing. And then beyond that he's very passionate about certain aspects of education, and educational publishing. And he often pushes for that. But there's really no plan to assure me or the computer as a whole, that that's the right path. And early on, I would go along with it. Right, Bill? Big thing Mexico office, right. And I've learned I've learned and I love him for it. And I went along, because I trusted that I learned that sometimes that emotional desire dreaming, that's not always grounded in any type of strategic thinking or clear plan is just a feeling it's an emotion. And it's not always backed up by a rational plan to make it work.
ME
Client, do you do you agree?
Client
Absolutely. I'm Mexico office.
ME
Okay, that's one example with.
Client’s Manager
Well, more recently, what a more recent example. Yeah, I mean, putting Mariana to be the project, she's is early literacy, pre K. K expert, was not a very strong command of English. And they proposed I know, I know, we didn't come from you only. But the proposal was to do push her to the one of the middle school high school grades that we're doing not by facing the SAT, but still are knowledgeably limited. She struggled to rely on an English to understand that she doesn't understand what's better college. I mean, we had that conversation, right? With deployment, because she's a good person. She's hard working, she will work late. But her her work was not loved by the client, even though that was her core strength, or literacy.
ME
At what point did you discuss this? After the client was already upset, or when she was put in that position?
Client’s Manager
We discussed it after the client got upset because we thought she was the right person for the position
ME
you did to get to okay.
Client’s Manager
But But once we got enough evidence that she wasn't, he was very hard to have that conversation that said, he kept his system that she was the right person. The guy was wrong. Do you remember this conversation better?
Client
Yeah. And I still think that she was the right person is
Client’s Manager
what is the who is so small?
Client
Right? We have to first of all, right, folks happy versus angry, not first of all, and then they shouldn't be working with this. Right? I do believe that people can go very slowly. I do believe that we that people can grow, and that they can learn other other tasks, right. I shouldn't like boxing into a specific field or your own case. Absolutely. They're supposed to be in this particular case with a cane. Right. I think she could do much more than that, though. If she were given the opportunity. A lot of us can do a lot more for given the opportunity. Yeah.
Client’s Manager
Yeah. Mexico is a little different.
Client
This was something that was at least I had not foreseen all of the issues that we would have with that office. And, and the biggest thing, lack of lack of enough profits, right.
Client’s Manager
But I take full responsibility. I'm not I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying, I'm just saying that as an example. It was a dream, but we really didn't have a plan. You know, but related, going back to my piano teacher said something that you often stand up and I know it comes from a good place in your heart, or that people are trainable that people can grow up to but we're hiring freelancers We're supposed to provide a service. We're not hiring except for if we have a very small team, we're not hiring employees that we want to grow into Karela we're doing with Jen. Jen has a PhD in Spanish, not a lot of publishing experience. She's a full time employee. And she's, we're grooming her. So I, I agree with you. 100%, right. But when we hire freelancers is that when you have a home, and you hire a plumber to come and fix the plumbing, or an electrician, to do an installation, okay, I'm sorry, they have to come ready to do the job. Okay, and if they're good, then we can realize, oh, I want to redo all the electricity in the in the house, not just the living room less than take it to the next level, it will help their business grow. They're giving me a good deal, etc. Here. You, again, comes from a good place in your heart, you see their potential. Okay, based on just feeling, not good performance. You always think, oh, they can learn, they can improve. Yeah, they can learn they can improve what they're doing that on our dollar. Okay. And, and, and I feel that sometimes that wishful thinking that they're gonna grow is too far fetched, they may be able to go from a one to a two. But I think sometimes we throw them into a project that they can go from one to 10. And that, that doesn't, that doesn't happen.
ME
So in that case with Marianna, Client’s Manager, would it have been better not to do the project? Given that you're so small?
Client’s Manager
The project was much bigger than mediana. Probably it was matching
ME
common to task. Okay.
Client’s Manager
Good, cause it's hard to find. So. And the red flags were there from the beginning. Okay. And it was a very fast and furious project. So we did the best we could. When I'm trying to say is that here we are, we're still better just said that she was the right person. Yeah, we've had this conversation multiple times that she wasn't an issue that that person or that she doesn't know anything?
ME
Well, he thinks so. And I don't know that our role at our meeting here is to figure out whether she was it wasn't right. Can you say it again? You were?
Client’s Manager
No? Yeah, I agree.
ME
Okay, yeah, you you I didn't hear what you said.
Client’s Manager
I didn't say anything. Okay, so
ME
how do you Petra, how do you think stop being the only delegate that was your most important one. Right. How does that reconcile with the what happened with Marianna? Seems like there's a tension there. So
Client
um now strategic, which means yet primary personalities. But it also just means ability to, to harm the issue that I see. In a move away from it? Yeah,
ME
that's probably better. The
Client
bigger the bigger issue is that? Again, because we're so small, we have to do where you have to wear many, many hats. And I think part of the issue is that because we have to wear very many hats. And we're good at that, you know, it's, it's, at least for me, it's hard to to say okay, well, you know, case in point, right at this point. We have this client called Great Minds, you know, and they're, I don't have a good working relationship with them. Right. And why does anybody have another editor of this photograph if she does, so. I have been asking for this year to do is work on a budgets because much smaller, more required to work on the budgets for them and it's sort of half healthy for on the side. But it's hard for me to give that to her. Because I have a system, right. And I can easily find my budgets when I need to, but I know they are in Federal Way delegated to her, I lose, I lose control over that case. And, and then it's hard later on, to have to go back to the reconciliation, you know, it's probably okay. She's been doing that. But that is hard for me to go. Same thing with putting together processes, so investors and numbers participating. But if we have to do presentations for a client, right, then it also we haven't we haven't we haven't quite been done by more than 90. We have a prep meeting later on today. for it, but you, I feel that there were things that I don't do.
ME
Well, okay. And that's a normal progression, right. And leadership, to learn to let go. A good metaphor I heard is, you know, for a rocket to, you know, ascend, it has to start shedding weight after a certain point. And we can work on that, but, and that's, that's good. That's good example. Those are good examples. I don't want to solve them right now. But that that's something we can do. But I want to check with Client’s Manager make sure those are the kinds of things you're thinking of him delegating.
Client’s Manager
Yeah, give you an easy, another easy example we have is finance, the VP of Finance and she has a couple of accountants on her team. The other day, we wanted to analyze the hours that have been put into a project by different people or person I forget exactly the details better. So I guess fellows are working hard. He asked for the raw data, because he wanted to do the analysis himself. I had asked him to ask Joanie, our VP of Finance, to provide the data and get out. So he wouldn't have to do that you can always do a deeper dive, or go back to vs.
ME
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's a normal state. Right, that if you look at the leadership agility I'm talking about, that's the expert state. And it's, it's a tough one. Because A, they're not going to do it as well. Because they just haven't been doing this as long. And be it's how we've always been rewarded throughout our career. And it could be even, you know, in college, right, with grades and, and, and how he's progressed, or anyone has progressed through their career. So it's natural, I think, to want to hold on to that. So when you look at the you improve communication, right? How would Client’s Manager, how would you know, that he's improving in that regard? Like what outcomes would you see?
Client’s Manager
Very good. I think I would start by, by by asking him these are the means go, what were the results, what kind of be probation does he feel that he got all the information he needed? And, and to be honest, internally, a good test of that would be how well people are able to move forward. With that said, me having to be at every meeting, where every decision is being taken.
ME
That gets to developing the others to write and delegating.
Client’s Manager
But that means that he was clear about the goal, okay direction and when you do that, you will need to set up checkpoints to monitor which is the other piece, sometimes you will delegate within that the news and then a month or two later, we find out things are going to rise. So delegating which starts with clear communication. This is what I'm delegating to you. This is what you do when and how and define the status of Freedom, I needed to figure out how to do X was indeed this, you know, path parameters, or I need you to figure out how to do why this struggle. There are different ways to get there. Tell me how you think you can get bigger wherever you drop. So that's the fourth
Client
issue that you and I have seen that. That and that one's a hard one causes. Yeah. If I'm not at the meetings, then how do I know? You know, who's doing well? Who's doing what you're trying to do? It becomes really hard. Yeah, yeah. You know, because I can do some general, sort of, okay, you seem to be doing well, maybe too. But but, you know, my lesson there, like, for example, the daily standup that we're having with the VHL thing, and that's where I see, you know, pitfalls that you're making, right? And then I need to get in there and get with them. But I'm not seeing those than
Client’s Manager
I do. You know, I think those are important. And there are two, right? Because they they set the path, right? To meet the goals. And Julie herself needs your help, right. So I'm all for that. But they to me, on their own. And then they make decisions and determine next steps based on the guidance that you provide early on in your daily daily standup. So I'm good with all that. I do think, also, in terms of our internal training, we've had this conversation many times, they need to be more interactive, they need to be along the lines of dagger, dagger, this was a client, John who did some amazing training, like I, I hold up to ourselves as the gold standard of how training should be done when we're working on a project. And allow allow team members to hold different pieces of it in a way that we can then monitor how they're progressing, not just give it to them and let them loose. Right.
Client
Of course, there are also like smaller projects, which are much simpler. And those you can let this you know, quicker than larger projects. Like the precepts the wayside project, you know, it was hands on the very, very beginning, first two, three months or less now I've been really, you know, let them let them off and on.
Client’s Manager
Yes, that's a very a great success stories for you. I think you've done a wonderful job with wayside. That was your client would be natural, that client for three years isn't three years to get a project, you finally did, thanks to your good reputation. And the fact that it was a you know, sort of circumstances that made it possible to do that. And you're involved heavily involved in for three months, while training Jen to take over that project. And I think she's she's will get along quite well.
ME
So is this you want to know I want go ahead.
Client’s Manager
I was asking better if you meet with Jin, regularly, do you have a weekly list at all?
Client
No, no, no. No feelings. But I do. So I do send when I see something wrong, a new set of emails or a slack. Right in the case that we do actually set up the need to talk.
Client’s Manager
Right I do meet with June with Jen weekly, I don't need with duty weekly. I should. But I also want to want her to feel a certain margin of freedom. I don't want her to feel micromanage. I deliberately not offered a weekly vote with Jen, she really needs it. You know, she truly does. So I'm almost at a point where I'm willing to save Beto would ask who would have to ask her first. Maybe I should stop having a weekly with her so that you can, okay. Because there's things that sometimes they're they're basketball arrived and lovely she brings it up and then I can redirect. She's doing a good job but the client is happy but that that's your that's your success story.
ME
She has two managers. Sounds like
Client’s Manager
she has me as the manager she reports directly to me as she has a dotted line competitor when he prior to that he that brought on board
ME
okay so So back to delegating,
Client’s Manager
you're saying
ME
I don't want to say should, you know, in a big example, you look at like a matrix, right in a much larger organization. And I have students who think that I taught them that they're never a good idea. And that's not true. It just depends on it would take a lot of communication between you and Client, for it to work well. Otherwise, she's pulled in two directions. Right?
Client
Because that is an issue, I think, for us, again, because they're so small, right? And we have with like four or five employees, but a bunch of freelancers. And so like in one of our ads, just above all the meetings. And so, you know, we have to do that doubling up and listening and you give them feedback, etc. I noticed that the ideal situation, but I think it's a negative I'm seeing a situation. I think we need to figure that one out. But I'm not sure we need to figure it out.
ME
Yeah, where are your job starts and Client’s Manager stops, perhaps. And when it comes to delegating, right, it sounds like what I'm hearing is, what's necessary to do that will be developing the team to be able to handle it. Right. Yeah.
Client
Yes, exactly. So I'm glad to say that I want to say something about that. Because the more we're talking to you have seen earlier on. And I understand and I respect what you're saying and want to know that you know about training folks, and but not training freelancers. But I think maybe one of the reasons that I think we're that way is because it's at the other places that I've been, that's what we used to do. That's what I used to do. It was local. So I have QPS, for example, I was the only employee, I had no, no, no, no employee reports. Right. So all my team was all freelancers. So I really heavily relied on them. And I had to train them because they didn't know everything that needs to happen, right. And so so I'm used to that kind of thinking and then here, it's a little bit is a little different. I get it. Anyway, I still feel that there are freelancers that are worth training and like so one of the things I did this other company for example, I had these long term financing shaky like a trust like Aetna, Client’s Manager, like coreless, low ROI, freelancers jobs that I had worked with him for many years. So it was a they were more colleagues and freelances. Really friend, right? And then so I you know, and it was it was a comfortable relationship, I could train them, and I knew that they would get it, you know, and one day they were working on a world class and let's say working on the ELT project, and it was a training chain, they have to be trained. So I wanted to say that because it, I think that's where, you know, there's that misalignment between you and me. And then, you know, that's tied to this, hopefully, that he was mentioned. You know, in order to delegate we need to train our team better. But then who do we train? You know, do we just train employees? And what if we have employees who will be on that grid? And that grid? Yeah, I have
ME
the potential. So
Client’s Manager
I've no idea you're saying even good freelancers need some, some level of training, depending on the project. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just what I was trying to express her and maybe we'll be clear, is the degree of training is that you know, one thing to train someone to go from one to two or three, versus someone from going to one to 10, which is often what I get from you. And somewhere in the future, but that future is on defined and the project may only be three, five months. But the training or the growth that you're dreaming of, may be a two year proposition. You know, their operators and editors, not a not even a senior editor. We had a staffing either they would do it and I'm not sure how she got there, but we had a Brianna. The costume be and I had to stop it. Does that make sense? That you agreed with me? but I'm not sure how that means that they are making perpetration or who, but I prefer not to be the one to have to raise my hand and stop and when it happened, I used to be the one. Right, and then I wouldn't have to stop the meeting. You see what I mean? And by three shot, we know, she does not have your level of expertise. She does not have your level of management. She is not good at making those decisions. Okay. That will be compensation for the day, whether she might worked on or other thing? I don't think she could. She doesn't have she doesn't have better leadership skills. Okay. So this is more about, again, sharpening your saw federal, in terms of your leadership, in terms of you have, you're an outstanding leader, okay. It's just a matter of sharpening those skills, you can be even more effective as a
ME
leader, all of us can do that, right. I don't know that we're ever finished. sharpen our leadership skills are our skills in general, right. Yeah. Yeah. So what it sounds like just listening for and from what I, you know, Petro knew he was making that decision if he had touch base with you beforehand. Would that have solved the problem? I mean, you just had differences of opinions that needed to be discussed before moving forward, perhaps. Client, I'll let us Client. What do you think petrol?
Client
Potentially, potentially, if we had spoken about it? And network just differences of opinion. I think it's a mindset that, that we have
ME
explained that.
Client
So I mean, you know, a woman has a certain way of looking at the way this thing should be. And I have a different Yeah, again, because we just have we have different backgrounds, right? Even though we all go through the same period. That's what makes us a good team. Honestly. One of the things that I have seen is that I have a far more successful clients, whenever I was around, you know, when we make clarion call together or quiet, you know, cold calls or never making the meeting together, then, you know, each of us separate. So I've seen that. So there's that synergy. But sometimes, yes, that at the same time, you know, we run into these kinds of issues, which I don't think they're really big issues, but they can become big issues. If we don't talk about the case. And one of those things said during the press that he didn't have to raise his hand. So that I think that's obvious, obviously, it's the public awareness, but it has to be more than aware that somehow we need to put into
Client’s Manager
practice.
Client
The habit to
ME
to change, right? Well, I don't, I don't want to think about the past as much about as about the future. So, Client’s Manager, when we I've, I've got a hard stop here in seven minutes. I don't know about you. When you say be more of a strategic thinker, can you explain what you mean by that? Not with examples, but what is the if you saw someone that was not anybody here in this meeting? They use it Oh, yeah, there are strict date they think strategically. Somebody in your field. What would they be doing that made you because you're not seeing their thinking, right? You're seeing their behavior and you're seeing what they said or hearing what they say. So what would you see?
Client’s Manager
Right, will be will be seen as someone who can make decisions that the the effective decisions across multiple projects, based on time constraints, and available talent without having to move people around? Too often. And without having to do replace people in the midst of something, and without having to jump in to do the work for them. Because they're not, they're not capable of fully doing what we encourage them to do.
ME
Okay, so that kind of embraces a lot of the other things we've talked about the strategic thinking. And that, you know, from the example of your giving you you're judging the decision after the fact, or after the ramifications of, you know, after it didn't work out that way. But it sounds like what you just said. You know, like, what happened with was that Madonna, right after the fact that didn't work out,
Client’s Manager
as if he stopped the meeting. So this was before ramification, she was being assigned a role that
ME
you didn't agree.
Client’s Manager
She nope, agreed that it was not the right role for her. So again, I don't really history, I'm not sure if her name got into the role. But I was doing like to stop it. So as intervene earlier, intervene earlier, and I had to request his testimony because it wasn't happening. weeks will go by, and we're going to happen, we're going to happen and yet, we started, we've interviewed a lot of freelancers, we have been waiting on the sidelines, we haven't really given them an assignment. And we don't even know how many openings. We had not had this asking me at my insistence. The staffing meeting took place last Friday. And the names that were plugged into those roles. Were not always the right name.
ME
Were there better names? Okay, available?
Client’s Manager
replace those originally? Oh, absolutely. Okay. We talked about that.
ME
Okay. Um, how often do the two of you meet one on one? Often,
Client
at least once a week, more or more likely, like twice a week? Officially, we have we have meetings on the calendar. But they're not officially in. You know, we're always speaking on the phone
Client’s Manager
every day, every day, pick up the phone and FaceTime. Even even before this meeting. Need anything from me? Anything you need me to be aware of? Anything you're worried about?
ME
Okay. All right. Well, I can work with a lot of this, then. I don't have any more questions. Thank you. I appreciate both of you taking this time. But is there, Petro? Is there something that you would like to add to what we've been talking about, given that you actually are an amazingly gifted employee? That's I don't want it to feel like our person is a general, in general. I don't want you to feel beat up upon because
Client
I'm just I, but I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. So I don't want to say something that, you know, we'll do that. There are some reasons. You raised some really good questions in the one off, especially with that staffing thing. And I do have some answers, but I don't want to be the one that said they'll be quoted again, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus on this. But what I can say is that, yes, it was a surprise to me that they appeared just constantly. Okay. And that was the first time that I will say that. And, you know, I give you my thought was to that meeting, probably with just a PDF or canned or a price that we're addressing and then about that.
ME
Was there something under your control that would have bedroom that you could have averted?
Client
If they had well, yeah, I mean, if I hadn't had a meeting with them beforehand, you know. I mean, it's part of this is it It's hard, harder. This is also that some of these meetings have brainstorming meetings. And at that meeting, we still build a whole bunch of brainstorming. But they, and I think that part was the clear in the meeting environment, and it was unclear and the charter documents that were presented in the reading. And so it seemed like, Oh, okay. It's, it's misleading. So I think that's a conversation to have with, with those two folks about that, right. Talking about, you know, strategic thinking and improving communication, right. And training folks. And this is this would be one, you know, a good a good example.
Client’s Manager
Inserted to that battle as you as well about when I put my foot down, I said, we need to have a second meeting tomorrow. I think, Julie, just through the staff a name into that PowerPoint, just so that we could have a mean. So in some way, we were having a conversation we needed to ask is that to be honest, moving forward, I prefer not to be the one to say that's not an appropriate role for that person. That is totally okay for you to jump in. And you're not throwing anybody under the bus when you're doing that, you know, as Rihanna is not she cannot be the accountant, the you know, great eight. You know, we love her as a mentor. She's a good one, but not constantly. All right. So if somebody's I think we have to meet that we needed to know.
ME
Right? Okay. I do have to bounce but I thank both of you guys. And I really look forward to working with with Client just because I've got such a great impression of him as a person. I've really enjoyed talking with him. But we're gonna do good work together. All right. All right. Take care. Bye bye. Recording